Raw Discussion 2013

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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:18 am

Astroblack wrote:Big complaint about Raw is AJ. I really don't like her. Not a good personality to be the GM of Raw. All her interactions with anyone come off awkward. What do you guys think?


Completely with you. I thought she would be okay at first just because of her unpredictability, but more and more it went from entertained to annoyed and now I just hate almost every segment she's in. The only thing she is really good for at this point is being berated by Punk or being accused of ruining Daniel Bryan's life. If she were limited to maybe two or three segments a night, I would probably feel differently, but she is just shoved down your throat.

I still disagree with you about three hours being too much for Raw. The three hour time slot has allowed the tag division to exist again. Hell, I saw Gabriel on television two weeks in a row. Same for Tyson Kidd. Sandow and Sheamus got a 15 minute match on television last week. I can understand three hours being too much for some people, but really it just leaves me wanting to watch more wrestling.

I will say this about wrestling in general. Over the last 8 or so months, I have really gotten into it. The largest reason being that I have gotten my brother back into wrestling and it is more enjoyable when someone else you see on a regular basis will talk about wrestling too. If Smackdown were on Thursdays or Wednesdays instead of Fridays, I would watch it in addition to Raw. I just can't justify staying in on a Friday night to watch wrestling.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by ILOVEMATTHARDY » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:28 pm

This last Raw was really the first three hour formatted one that seemed off to me. The segments were very very very dry and not really interesting, and it just felt like nothing advanced. They really fell back on having AJ, Punk and Team Hellno carry the show.

And I never in my life thought that they would overuse AJ. I have been her biggest fan since day one.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:27 pm

ILOVEMATTHARDY wrote:And I never in my life thought that they would overuse AJ. I have been her biggest fan since day one.


Have you thought about changing your name to ILOVEAJLEE?
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Herco » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:16 am

This AJ girl seems to me like she has no business being put in the position that she's in, where the whole show focuses and revolves around her.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:33 am

ILOVEMATTHARDY wrote:This last Raw was really the first three hour formatted one that seemed off to me. The segments were very very very dry and not really interesting, and it just felt like nothing advanced. They really fell back on having AJ, Punk and Team Hellno carry the show.

And I never in my life thought that they would overuse AJ. I have been her biggest fan since day one.

You're thinking of Christy Hemme
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Astroblack » Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:05 pm

The thing about the tag division is that they're all make shift teams. Plus they're basically made of jobbers. Prime Time Playas have a goofy dance and they're just blah. Team Hell No is becoming very corny. And I love Daniel Bryan but he's being overused. Its hard to become invested in the tag division when you know that the teams are gonna be broken up really soon.

The team shave no real chemistry because they've just been slapped together. The three big teams in the early 2000s had a great understanding. Matt and Jeff were brothers. Edge and Christian were childhood friends and The Dudleys had been teaming for years. If we could get a similar group of talents together who have been teaming for a while, that'd be cool.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:43 am

Astroblack wrote:The thing about the tag division is that they're all make shift teams. Plus they're basically made of jobbers. Prime Time Playas have a goofy dance and they're just blah. Team Hell No is becoming very corny. And I love Daniel Bryan but he's being overused. Its hard to become invested in the tag division when you know that the teams are gonna be broken up really soon.

The team shave no real chemistry because they've just been slapped together. The three big teams in the early 2000s had a great understanding. Matt and Jeff were brothers. Edge and Christian were childhood friends and The Dudleys had been teaming for years. If we could get a similar group of talents together who have been teaming for a while, that'd be cool.


I see your general dissent on the tag division, but I think that a few of the teams have shown some very viable team chemistry. The Rhodes Scholars definitely have some chemistry together, they busted out a couple tandem moves tonight, were congratulating each other throughout the match (it is subtle but plays so well with their characters), and even celebrated together with that cartwheel that Sandow does. Ryder and Santino operate as a thrown together tag team, I can see that. Mysterio and Sin Cara have actually been surprisingly impressive tagging together. My major beef was that I didn't get to see more of Kidd and Gabriel who I was particularly impressed with.

Team Hell No is the general exception because their team chemistry is that they hate each other, which I still find amusing.

I really enjoyed this Raw. It was leaps and bounds better than last week's, which wasn't awful, just not as good as Raw has been for the majority of the Summer. I have approximately one complaint. Leave John Cena at home. Don't bring him out if he can't compete or at least don't put him on television in the arena. Give us videos of his rehab and him training for his potential match. Have him talk about the match while working to get ready for the match. He got a surprising pop tonight after being off the show for just a week. They don't need Cena there every week if he isn't able to compete and tonight's show was a prime example of that since the only segment that I thought was really weak was the opening one with him in it. That match can be built without Cena there with everyone just sort of shitting on Punk for not taking the match.

One last thing, Cesaro/Kidd was awesome. They really need to do something with Tyson Kidd because he is exciting to watch every time he is in the ring. By himself, he is almost enough reason to bring back the Cruiserweight Division. Just saying.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:37 am

Fuck it, give Ryback the title.

Strike while the iron is hot and have him lose it in a ladder match at TLC so he doesn't get pinned
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:51 pm

SHADE 45 wrote:Fuck it, give Ryback the title.

Strike while the iron is hot and have him lose it in a ladder match at TLC so he doesn't get pinned


Don't listen to Shade! He's lost his mind!
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:25 pm

Longshot wrote:
SHADE 45 wrote:Fuck it, give Ryback the title.

Strike while the iron is hot and have him lose it in a ladder match at TLC so he doesn't get pinned


Don't listen to Shade! He's lost his mind!

Fuck having a mind, you can create a star in an instant by having Ryback beat Punk at Hell In A Cell
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:17 pm

SHADE 45 wrote:
Longshot wrote:
SHADE 45 wrote:Fuck it, give Ryback the title.

Strike while the iron is hot and have him lose it in a ladder match at TLC so he doesn't get pinned


Don't listen to Shade! He's lost his mind!

Fuck having a mind, you can create a star in an instant by having Ryback beat Punk at Hell In A Cell



I would be irate (not that WWE would care) if they just threw away the whole build with Punk for the flavor of the month. Don't TNA the WWE.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:47 am

Longshot wrote:
SHADE 45 wrote:
Longshot wrote:
SHADE 45 wrote:Fuck it, give Ryback the title.

Strike while the iron is hot and have him lose it in a ladder match at TLC so he doesn't get pinned


Don't listen to Shade! He's lost his mind!

Fuck having a mind, you can create a star in an instant by having Ryback beat Punk at Hell In A Cell



I would be irate (not that WWE would care) if they just threw away the whole build with Punk for the flavor of the month. Don't TNA the WWE.

Well when else can they give Ryback the title? He can't get it anytime after Survivor Series because of The Rock and if he starts feuding with like Dolph Ziggler, no one's gonna care.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:43 am

My solution is to either not give him a title at all or feed him Miz.

Really, this is my solution:

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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:51 am

He already ate Miz and he's still hungry. He wants a skinny-fat ass man to eat this time.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Herco » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:19 am

Punk vs. Ryback for the WWE title. I actually like the idea a lot.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:21 am

Herco wrote:Punk vs. Ryback for the WWE title. I actually like the idea a lot.


I don't. However, I am calling Brock Lesnar involvement somehow setting everything up for Survivor Series.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Herco » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:33 pm

It's never bad to have a new face in the WWE title picture, I'm sick of seeing the same faces over and over again.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Herco wrote:It's never bad to have a new face in the WWE title picture, I'm sick of seeing the same faces over and over again.


I agree with that in theory because I do like seeing new faces in the mix for the belt and Ryback DOES bring something different to the table that WWE hasn't had in a little while, but that being said, I would prefer they had elevated one of the guys who has been on the roster for the last few years honing their skills. Truth be told, all Ryback can really do is a series of power moves. Do we even know that he can wrestle for 20 minutes? I don't think I have seen him in a match longer than two minutes.

Shade, have you seen anything in developmental that makes you think Ryback can have a main event quality match? I am singling you out because you pay more attention to developmental than most people do.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:59 pm

Developmental? Ryback never appeared in developmental post Skip Sheffield as Ryback. So I can only go by the little I saw of him in FCW in 2009, which is really not enough to make an opinion.

To answer your question, I have no idea. His stuff on NXT would probably be the best indication. If I had to make an educated guess, he's probably better than you think but not as good as you want him to be.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:58 pm

SHADE 45 wrote:Developmental? Ryback never appeared in developmental post Skip Sheffield as Ryback. So I can only go by the little I saw of him in FCW in 2009, which is really not enough to make an opinion.

To answer your question, I have no idea. His stuff on NXT would probably be the best indication. If I had to make an educated guess, he's probably better than you think but not as good as you want him to be.


Haha, well I knew he wasn't as good as I wanted him to be when he couldn't hit his finisher on Tensai the same week that Cesaro was able to hit his on Brodus.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:20 am

Longshot wrote:
SHADE 45 wrote:Developmental? Ryback never appeared in developmental post Skip Sheffield as Ryback. So I can only go by the little I saw of him in FCW in 2009, which is really not enough to make an opinion.

To answer your question, I have no idea. His stuff on NXT would probably be the best indication. If I had to make an educated guess, he's probably better than you think but not as good as you want him to be.


Haha, well I knew he wasn't as good as I wanted him to be when he couldn't hit his finisher on Tensai the same week that Cesaro was able to hit his on Brodus.

He still did it on SmackDown to Tensai
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by LegendKillerRAB » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:48 am

I've heard people say they think Tensai just sandbagged on Ryback. Take it for what it's worth.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by SHADE 45 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:54 am

LegendKillerRAB wrote:I've heard people say they think Tensai just sandbagged on Ryback. Take it for what it's worth.

Dave Meltzer said that one time was a sand bagging and the other time was not the right timing. I'm guessing that Ryback tried to rush it the second time and the first time was Tensai's fault
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by LegendKillerRAB » Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:56 pm

Even though it's from a RAW house show, the following video bears mention.



Skip to 5:40, and watch as Ryback fails to hit his finisher yet again. The opponent this time? Paul Heyman.

........Yeah, Paul Heyman.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:53 pm

Well, it would be more disappointing if it had been Punk than it is as Heyman.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by LegendKillerRAB » Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:57 pm

Longshot wrote:Well, it would be more disappointing if it had been Punk than it is as Heyman.


The point about it being Heyman was that people had claimed Tensai was sandbagging previously, with a possible motivation being jealousy that his push failed and Ryback's succeeded. However, Paul Heyman is one of the most over characters in WWE history, and isn't even a wrestler, thus, he would have no reason to sandbag while taking the move (in other words, Heyman has nothing to gain from making Ryback look bad). Long story short, this proves that Ryback simply has trouble doing the move (and this should clear Tensai of any suspicion of him sandbagging). As for why he has trouble, I believe it's because the setup for the move sucks. Trying to use the setup for a Fisherman's Suplex is a dumb idea when the desired end result is the opponent being in a Fireman's Carry position. John Cena has never had a problem getting anyone in position for the AA, and while Cena is freakishly strong, Ryback has shown he clearly is of a similar calibur. If Cena & Ryback are of similar strength & both their moves have the opponent wind up in a Fireman's Carry, then the only reason one is successful & the other is not is the method they are using. If WWE would allow Ryback to use a different method to lift his opponents, he'd have no trouble pulling off his finisher. So why hasn't WWE changed it? The only reason I can think of is because the WWE is extremely image conscious. When Ryback performs Shell Shocked the way it is now, it admittedly looks impressive, because the transitioning from Fisherman to Fireman isn't easy. If they start having him going into the Fireman right away, it looks weaker in a sense that WWE is basically saying he's not good or strong enough to hit it the original way. While some fans might pick up on this, chances are the ones that do wouldn't think much of it, and would probably forget it within a few weeks. But WWE is so scared that people might view Ryback as less of a monster than he already is that they've kept it, and that's at the expense of both Ryback's credibility if he keeps screwing up & anyone who has to take the move as it is now, because it's an injury waiting to happen.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:56 am

I get what you're saying and for the most part agree, with the exception of that you know that on any given offensive move it is usually a tandem effort between the competitors to pull off the move. Nobody does a suplex by themselves, the guy taking the suplex has to jump in order for the guy giving the suplex to guide him over and execute the move. Paul Heyman isn't a wrestler. He might have been in a match here and there or taken a few bumps, but he isn't a wrestler or even particularly athletic looking. I don't really buy that Tensai sandbagged Ryback because I've seen him struggling with other moves, but I am sure that Ryback getting Paul Heyman up in his move is a lot more difficult than getting a guy up who knows how to take wrestling moves.

That being said, like you LKR, I think Ryback's finisher has an overly complicated set up for what is essentially a modified Samoan Drop. It doesn't make it look less impressive, but I don't for a second believe he can hit that move on guys like Show or Brodus considering how much trouble he had with Tensai. Also, I know he had the rematch on the next SD and hit the move, but how often are they going to allow the third time to be the charm? Probably not very often at all. The move is so similar to Samoa Joe's Muscle Buster that I am surprised they haven't considered setting it up the same way. Less physically impressive? Maybe. But marching around the ring with a human back pack will never be unimpressive.

Now, all this aside, his variety pack of power moves delivered to Punk at the end of Raw was impressive. It would have been better for those moves to have come into play during any of his previous 6 months of squash matches, but whatever. The powerslam looked shaky at first and impressive to finish and everything else looked good, especially the powerbomb.

I caught this on 411mania earlier:

CM Punk and Ryback are said to be working hard on their match at the Hell in a Cell PPV on Sunday. The two wrestled at live events this past weekend. Fans who reported from the shows say they are working well together and get better every night.

Punk is said to be leading Ryback in the matches and WWE officials are hopeful they'll have a good match at the PPV.

Punk vs Ryback is the only match that will take place inside Hell in a Cell this Sunday.

Credit: Rajah


So I am pretty interested to see how well their match turns out and I am pretty optimistic. I'm not at all sure how this thing is going to play out from a match or storyline point of view and that is something I always like in wrestling.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by LegendKillerRAB » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:27 am

I'm one of the people who is hoping the "Lesnar finish" rumor comes true. Punk, in no way, shape, or form should be dropping the title to anyone but Cena or The Rock, depending on what the plan is for Mania (If it's Cena/Rock, then Punk loses to the Rock at the Rumble, if it's Punk/Rock then Cena beats Punk prior to the Rumble and drops the title to Rock instead). Either way, Ryback shouldn't win this match. But therein lies the problem, in that Ryback losing will hurt him. A DQ or Countout finish obviously wouldn't, but those aren't available given the match is a HIAC, a match that must have a finish. The only way to keep Punk champion without hurting Ryback is to have a run in cost Ryback the match. The thing is, none of the heel main eventers besides maybe Big Show look like they could conceivably stop Ryback, given how much he's made the WWE Champion of all people look like his complete bitch. Since Big Show is already occupied, the only logical run in is Lesnar. Lesnar destroying Ryback to give Punk the win makes total sense in that Lesnar is a fucking beast, and would be preying on another beast who has already wrestled through one of the most barbaric (in kayfabe anyway) matches in WWE, and also would have no idea Lesnar was coming. Fans have also said this could set up Cena/Ryback vs. Punk/Lesnar for Survivor Series, which works on so many levels. For one, Punk doesn't have to defend the title in this case, so they can have the Punk/Cena fued ender at TLC and send the winner off to face the Rock. Also, since I'd expect Cena & Ryback to win, it helps continue Ryback's credibility without costing Punk the title (I'd expect Punk to eat the pin/submission in the match). I don't know what the plan is for Mania, but if they want to get really interesting, they could have Ryback one on one with Lesnar in a battle of the behemoths (yeah, I know, it didn't go so well with Goldberg/Lesnar, but that was because the crowd turned on them & neither man really gave a shit because they were leaving). The only reasons Lesnar interfering Sunday wouldn't happen is because Lesnar has a limited amount of dates and WWE may not want to burn through them (one for HIAC, one for Raw the next night most likely, and one for Survivor Series) and because of HHH's ego (as the plan was for HHH to get his win back at some point, and this would throw the rematch out the window. I say ego because it's a win HHH totally does not need, and why waste Lesnar's dates for a match we already saw).
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Herco » Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:54 pm

I don't see a problem in Punk winning clean and ending Ryback's streak. Doesn't seem to me like he loses that much, in fact, one would presume he was thrown into the main event scene way too very soon, as he only just really squashed a bunch of jobbers and did not do very well against real wrestlers.
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Re: Raw Discussion 2012

PostPosted by Longshot » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:12 am

Herco wrote:I don't see a problem in Punk winning clean and ending Ryback's streak. Doesn't seem to me like he loses that much, in fact, one would presume he was thrown into the main event scene way too very soon, as he only just really squashed a bunch of jobbers and did not do very well against real wrestlers.


Actually he is still undefeated Herco. He hasn't exactly faced a who's who, but he has wins over Miz, Swagger, and Tensai. I would assume he will get another over Dolph on Wednesday as well. I think The Miz might be his highest profile victory.
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